Interview with Artist Kai (@nomkakaii)

In this interview, Hong Kong-based multidisciplinary artist Kai (@nomkakaiii) shares her journey of creativity, passion, and self-discovery through art. Reflecting on projects such as ‘Everyday Toast’, Kai discusses the balance between "inward" and "outward" creativity, emphasizing the importance of self-expression alongside public-facing work. She also provides insights into navigating unconventional career paths, drawing inspiration from her experiences living in Tokyo, Hong Kong, and the U.S., and offers advice to aspiring young artists on staying curious, resilient, and authentic in their creative pursuits. We hope you’re excited to delve in!

1. Firstly, what is your favorite café and why? Do you have a go-to drink?

My favourite cafe changes depending on where I’m at. Though the one that had a profound impact on my relationship with art/design, food and community was Sqirl in LA. It was the first time I’ve fallen so deeply in love with their brand identity and the fashion-forward yet “curatorial” approach they have on food. Their food isn’t quite bounded by categories of “cuisine” — you’ll find flavors that are so reminiscent of Asia yet carry the essence of western herbs like pesto. On top of that, everyone that works there has a story to share. Being in Los Angeles means you’ll likely meet a musician or an actor that’s trying to make it while doing part-time jobs on the side. I have a deep admiration for the chef-owner, Jessica Koslow— a woman of the world and constantly an inspiring energy I look up to. 

I’ve nearly tried everything on their menu but my go-to treat meal is 42.5 hour French toast and an iced “Seu-in” (shaken matcha with water). Though I’d say the best experience is going there with two other friends and sharing a table of toast.

However, my usual pairing for toast is just an iced Americano (black coffee- no syrup, no milk) or usually non-caffeinated teas like chamomile and peppermint.

2. You’ve almost reached the 500th drawing of your "Everyday Toast" project, which is an incredible milestone. What have you learned throughout this journey of drawing toast?

Thank you :) and yes, it’s been a long project! I think the question that I get asked a lot is “what’s next after toast” or “what will change” after each 100 increment— most importantly, because now it’s halfway to 1000. I never quite imagined a daily challenge back in October 2022 to turn into something that is still ongoing and taken on new meanings since it started out.

It’s always much “harder” to continue doing the same thing over and over again than to create something new. Sometimes it’s harder to maintain patterns and keep finding things to be excited about. After drawing 100 toasts, I asked myself — how can I push myself further and make this more interesting for me? So I started doing collaborations online with cooking creators and later started engaging with my own local community through scouting for toast-dishes at cafes. Oddly enough, this project really gave me a reason to discover new cultures, new places and also led me to new experiences and people.

3. You’ve distinguished between “inward” creativity (personal reflection) and “outward” creativity (collaborations). How do you protect your “inward” space while maintaining a public-facing career?

With art, there’s a commercial side of things where for example, you would have to follow a brief or create things that are digestible either by the client that is commissioning you or by the public— sometimes, you have to compromise— especially in the projects where there are multiple parties that you are trying to align goals and intentions with. At times, collaborations could be inspiring and really push you outside of your comfort zone by challenging what you can do with the rules set, but it can also be limiting because you only have a limited “power” to contribute.

My concept of “inward” and “outward” creativity was something that I  finally put to words regarding my own pattern of creating art for myself (inward) while on the other hand, outwardly focused on creating demand or responding to demand. At times, that is more specifically regarding the “community” aspect. I believe that each artist should have their own “inward projects” that aren’t critiqued by others — simply a tool for self-expression and a space of non-judgment. It’s experimental, freeing and most importantly, pushes your imagination and scope as an individual much further.

Inward creativity are the self-funded projects (most of the time) that is something that my “soul” really wants to do. It is an opportunity that is made by myself, for myself. I sometimes think of my body as a vessel and my mind as the “parent” — what the mind wants to give to its vessel is how I would express a parent wanting to almost give everything to their kid to achieve whatever they want. I feel that sometimes with creative projects, people wait for the right “opportunity” to come by but sometimes it is most freeing to give yourself that chance to be. To “invest” in yourself and also a great way to push self-belief, too.

With balancing this inward and outward creativity— I feel that I don’t suppress my creativity or limit it. I think the commercial part of art is admirable and makes you question the relationship you have with society and how you want to “show up.” The experiences I get through collaborations help me grow as an individual and inspire my works that I express my “inward” creativity in — I see collaborations as relationships that you build with people, sharing their goals/ intentions and developing trust. It makes you question the way you do things and helps you find your most optimum way of working. So for me, I think a good balance allows me to stay connected and also stay imaginative / in tune with myself.

4. You’re an illustrator, model, dancer, and ultimately, a well-rounded creative. How do you reconcile these identities when the industry often pressures artists to specialize? Has being a “multi-hyphenate” ever backfired, or conversely, opened doors you didn’t expect?

I often struggle defining my identity or explaining what “exactly” I do for my career when I meet others for the first time. The usual first introduction I give is, “hi I’m kai and I’m a food illustrator” because it is so incredibly niche yet imaginable as a career— and also because that is where I define my roots being in. Many artists are not just fluent in one medium now— they’re often juggling many different jobs and skills to make art work as a career. Honestly, I would even argue that I’ve become a one-person design/ social media agency. I pitch, script, film, draw, write, edit, model, photograph, dance, and negotiate. And that’s just a glimpse of my “description.” Jobs sometimes comes with stereotypes and limitations that already are created by images, cultures and behaviours we’ve observed around us — but I don’t think it’s quite all that in our society today.

Months building up to my university graduation, I put a lot of pressure on myself to secure a job/internship but I struggled to find a set of job requirements that made me feel excited to learn. I’m someone that loves being challenged and I carry a lot of curiosity with me — so if a job feels too “predictable”, often at times I realize that it makes me feel like I’m going backwards. My current internship with Ztoryhome in Hong Kong came across by chance when I visited and met Alice — after sharing what I do and finding a lot of similarity in our projects and creativity, I was welcomed into the team for the summer. Although I’m an intern there, I find that just “brainstorming” wasn’t enough for me to find fulfilment in— and the fulfilment I felt most was from “executing” my own ideas, especially from briefs that were aligned with my interests really make my eyes light up. Hence I might have pitched a collaboration in Hong Kong for August… (stay tuned). I would say I’m someone that loves to be a part of every bit of the process, and I believe that knowing about each part of the process helps streamline projects better.

Recently I came across this term called “slasher” in Hong Kong — it’s been more actively used by media outlets to describe multi-hyphenate individuals. The term is very closely related to freelancers, but I feel that it gives more context on their interests. I’ve met part-timers that have previously worked full-time jobs before and realized that it wasn’t really fulfilling. I think I’ve learnt to accept that I’m also a part of this “group”. My previous experiences working at 4 internships in smaller companies have given me a lot of learning opportunities and to be a part of everything. To me, work isn’t just a separate part of my life but it is something that brings me a lot of fulfilment to take part in. Being multi-hyphenate sometimes can also follow the saying “jack of all trades — master of none.” While I think with big companies and corporate systems, people are paid to perform most efficiently in their very own expertise — as a multi-hyphenate, I would get bored at some point doing the same things over and over again. As I previously mentioned, because of the skills and hobbies I have amassed over the years, I create opportunities for myself.

I think overall— it is hard to walk a “conventional” path for a career as a multi-hyphenate / slasher because there’s no blueprint. You build the path in front of you and at times it can feel confusing / lost as you don’t necessarily have a “promotion” in sight. You can set up goals to help define your direction and what “promotion” would look like— but ultimately I think it depends on what fulfillment feels like for you.

5. You’ve lived in Tokyo, Hong Kong, and America. Did living in each of these regions shift your artistic voice or inspiration? If so, how?

Creatively, I think moving to Tokyo was my release from the standards that I set of how I should be: what color my hair should be, what clothes I should wear and how I show up. Up until that point, I’ve just done things knowing that there was an expectation of what role I was supposed to play and in my mind: how I should behave as a girl from Hong Kong. I wanted to be someone that was admirable and followed the rules — never wanted to break them as I believe “they were set for a reason” or that having an opinion about certain topics because it felt “bad” if I did. I used to think that there was only one correct answer to questions asked within classrooms so I feared opinion and getting things “wrong” — this idea that only one way of doing things is “right” seemed to be drilled in the academic system. It works for some subjects, but not all. With art, it’s one of those things that is very “subjective” not because of the “avante gardeness” — but actually the fact that it is quite perspective driven.

I started developing my own voice in university when I moved away from home and experienced art school in New York. My expectation of art school turned out to not be the reality, and I found myself wanting more. I wanted to have a second major in East Asian studies with a strong Japanese language department and experience school life in Japan for a year, which was one of the main reasons I eventually transferred out of Parsons. My first year in New York helped me discover what I needed, and I had an incredible professor called Nancy Roach that inspired me through her writing classes. Your internal world as an artist is as important as your technical skills — so I really do vouch for people to learn more about their own cultural backgrounds and find ways to connect with the community.

Critical thinking became an important skill I focused on developing in my second year when I realized my weakness in “substance” and world building in my first year at Parsons. Moving from New York to Los Angeles was probably the largest “culture shock” I experienced as I was deprived of a walkable city. In total I spent 2 years at USC, in the Roski School of Art and Design. To be honest, I didn’t participate in a lot of student / school activities. I seem to have a deep fascination with “work” so my outside time was dedicated to internships and growing professionally seemed to happen naturally. Los Angeles can be both a strange and creative place to be— it can also be lonely. But I would say, when I met my best friends Liz and Jason… long drives and “chilling at home” was totally casual. We didn’t have to go “somewhere” just to have fun. They simply have become family and we would go to each other’s houses— I sometimes slept over at Liz’ place on the weekends, talk hours about life, and go out to our Korean pocha spot on friday nights once a month for skewers. In an odd way, that felt like a “normal life.” I would go to school, Liz and Jason would go to work, we would meet up on days and talk about life. It was a slower pace of living — what would happen in my career for me in Los Angeles in two months would equate to the speed I worked at in Japan/ Hong Kong.

6. Given the cultural context in Hong Kong, where traditional values often emphasize stability and professional careers, what advice would you give to young artists who may feel pressure from their families or society to pursue more conventional job paths instead of following their creative passions?

I think first of all, I really do want to highlight that pressures from families usually come from a sense of worry, especially from a financial standpoint. Money is a topic that is constantly talked about in Hong Kong - whether it’s about raising rent prices, vacant storefronts and now, the financial comparison it’s facing with the Greater Bay Area in terms of pricing has made it even more “difficult” to perhaps, pursue an art career. I’m putting a big emphasis on the term CAREER here— art does not have to be your full-time career in order for you to be “pursuing it.” It’s easy sometimes to villainize parents’ worries and see this as “preventing” you from pursuing your passion, though I think given the financial reality of Hong Kong’s art ecosystem and the “entry level” of art — there are too many factors that can influence one’s career aside from just “working hard.”

Value systems in Hong Kong have made it difficult for there to be a supportive art ecosystem that encourages creativity and innovation — production costs are high hence most of the time, things end up having to be outsourced to manufacturers in China. Hong Kong is small— competitive, hardworking and a place that imports a lot of things, which would undoubtedly give it a disadvantage when it comes to cost. While knowing this, you can choose to either be pessimistic and choose to “accept it” for what it is or find ways to be creative.

Although I know it can be a difficult topic to talk about with parents when you’re just starting out / in school, actions do speak louder than words and you would really have to “prove” your dedication. I made it a bare minimum for me to achieve top grades in high school as it would provide me the best shot at choosing a university with a range of resources. Studying for me is a responsibility— everything on top of this is an extra that I take on. Always remember that studying is for yourself, and to be better educated about the world and “how it works.” It will always serve back to your own personal growth. My art continued on the side while I pursued a more liberal-arts driven degree in university (double majored in Art and East Asian studies). Art is not something you need to pursue in school in order to be “good at” — what art schools provide are resources from academia to materials to technology. I transferred out of Parsons ultimately because I did not feel like I was “growing” as an individual. I was confident in my technical skills, but I still had a lot to learn to develop my “substance.”

As someone that grew up in Hong Kong and didn’t have a lot of practicing artists / professionals around me, it is hard to *imagine* it as a career. The career paths that I got introduced to in the art field were: fine artist / fashion designer / jewelry designer / architect — and at some point, everyone that took art wanted to be an architect in the graduating class before mine in high school. With money being recognized universally as “success” in Hong Kong, it is natural to have this hyper-focus on it. But while saying all this, I want you to think about: what would it mean for you to be a successful artist? Is it to have your own exhibition? Publish your own book? And another question I want to ask is: what is stopping you? For many artists, the biggest type of ‘support’ some parents can give may simply be not stopping you from doing what you want.

7. At Chartium, we have a large youth audience (ages 13-25) passionate about creativity and the arts. What’s one piece of advice you would give to them?

I think the creative timeline is an interesting one — jobs may not always be consistent and there may be moments of ‘slow periods’ where you seem to feel lost and stuck in a place. If you want to build a creative career, it’s important to stay open-minded to possibilities and potentials of how your art can become. On top of that, always stay curious and always stay humble. Keep on wanting to learn more and feed knowledge into your soul. Don’t analyze while creating — they’re two different processes. Art is one of the things that make you learn to trust your gut more, so really believe in how you feel in the moment and honor that. Don’t underestimate the importance of a project regardless of its scale being big or small. Finish your projects. You are the best as your present self, so don’t let ‘perfectionism’ get to you by thinking ‘I am currently not enough / haven’t reached my potential’ — because perhaps, your potential goes even further than what you imagine. Don't lose yourself and give someone else the power to 'fix you' or make important decisions for you-- they affect you and it's your life.